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Terry Somerville: A New Wind Is Blowing

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A NEW WIND IS BLOWING

A New Wineskin Is Here

Mark 2:22

“And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; else the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is spilled, and the skins will be destroyed: but new wine is put into fresh wineskins.”

Dear Friends,

History demonstrates that when God awakens His people in repentance and holiness,  it often leads to remarkable social transformation. 

A revival is followed by a reformation.

What begins in the Church produces changes in the community and the marketplace.

In the Welsh Revival, for example, police forces had nothing to do, grog shops closed, and the mine horses would not obey the drivers who had stopped using profanity—they didn’t recognize clean language.

But today, we seem stuck. We experience church revival while the country perishes.

Lets look at the historic and current pattern of revival.

An Old-Time Revival

  • Prayer
  • The Spirit of God moves in a whole community
  • The Gospel is communicated in some way
  • People repent, believe, and live differently
  • The community is transformed
  • Revival transmits to another community and transforms it as well.
  • The nation is transformed — reformation

Acts 19:18–20
“Many also of those that had believed came, confessing, and declaring their deeds… So mightily grew the word of the Lord and prevailed.”

God is still moving powerfully today—but revival now seems trapped inside the four walls of the church.

That’s an OLD WINESKIN problem.
 

A Modern Western Revival

  • Prayer
  • The Spirit of God moves in a church
  • The Gospel is communicated
  • People repent, believe, and live differently
  • The local church is changed
  • The local community is largely unaffected
  • Revival mainly transmits to other churches
     

IMPLICATIONS

Modern culture is entirely different than it was even fifty years ago.

Our society is no longer formed primarily by geographical communities, though most of us live in cities. Past revival methods mostly work inside church culture.

Local revival cannot touch those who shape the conscience and conduct of a society. They now live in a different kind of “community.”

Our culture is created through copper, fiber, satellites, wireless systems, and screens.
We now live inside vast virtual communities shaped by television, the internet, mass media, the corporate marketplace, big government—and now AI-generated illusions of reality.

A global culture is saturating us.

Our new society permits a constant flow of wickedness that we often feel powerless to restrain. Most of the time, we’re just on the receiving end of a sewer pipe.

Psalm 11:3
“If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?”

Revival does not spread the way it once did. One hundred years ago, when a community shared a common culture, revival would permeate it. This still happens in some places—parts of Africa, for example—but not here.
 

 

THE NEED FOR A NEW WINESKIN

The Church needs a new wineskin to carry the new wine and bring the Kingdom of God into this culture.

That means new authority—locally and nationally—within the areas that actually create culture.

The Lord has been preparing a gigantic Gospel net that transcends national marketing systems, media platforms, and political boundaries, and can touch the heart of a nation.

It features a return to relationships, with the power of God released in the marketplace.

The shift has been a long time coming—but it will be right on time.

Habakkuk 2:14
“For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.”


A NEW WINESKIN IS HERE


1. From Organizational to Relational

The Church is moving from an organizational way of being to a relational one.
Relationship must be recovered—even in a virtual world.

John 13:35
“By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”

2. From A Focus On Ministries to Jesus and His Bride

The focus is moving from ministries and organizations to Jesus Himself and being His Bride. Who we are is becoming as important as what we do.

Ephesians 5:27
“That he might present the church to himself a glorious church… holy and without blemish.”

3. From Superstars to Everyone Ministering

Ministry is shifting from a few platform superstars to everyone walking in power.

Ephesians 4:11–12
“…for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering.”
Acts 1:8
“Ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you…”

4. From Buildings to Relationships

The location of ministry is moving from church buildings to personal relationships in the marketplace and social networks.

Acts 8:4
“They therefore that were scattered abroad went about preaching the word.”

5. From Skill to Presence

The power of ministry is moving from skill and charisma to the presence of God Himself, anointing everyone by the Holy Spirit.

Zechariah 4:6
“Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith Jehovah of hosts.”

6. From Performance to God’s Glory

The passion of ministry is moving away from idols—platforms, positions, performance—and toward God’s glory being seen.

John 12:43
“They loved the glory that is of men more than the glory that is of God.”
1 Corinthians 10:31
“Whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.”

7. From Teaching to Impartation

Preparation for ministry is moving from teaching alone to impartation, from knowledge to anointing and holiness.

2 Timothy 1:6
“Stir up the gift of God which is in thee…”
Hebrews 12:14
“…the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord.”

8. From Control to Servanthood

Leadership is shifting from organizational control to servanthood and honor.

Mark 10:42–45
“Whosoever would become great among you, shall be your minister…”

9. From Corralling to Commissioning

Vision is moving from pastors safely corralling the flock to apostles leading the flock as an army.

Joel 2:7
“They run like mighty men… they break not their ranks.”

 

THE GLOBAL “FISH NET”

God is taking us into the next GLOBAL phase, new wineskin and all.

In the 1990s, God began deep character preparation. Now the culture and practice of the Church is undergoing massive change.

1 Peter 4:17
“For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God.”

A great—and often unpleasant—pruning has taken place over the last decade.

  • Holiness is rising
  • Mixture is being purged
  • Intimacy with God is increasing
  • Renewal is lifting religious burdens
  • Love and relationship are becoming foundational again

The prophetic is rising with authority.
Prayer is increasing—identificational repentance, spiritual mapping, and warfare prayer.

Millions of ordinary believers are ascending alongside institutions and “super ministries.”
Less emphasis on denominations. More on the whole Body of Christ.

Apostolic authority is being released to take territory for the Kingdom of God.

2 Corinthians 10:3–5
“The weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but mighty before God to the casting down of strongholds.”


A FINAL WORD

The Lord is judging man-made structures of church and ministry that are devoid of the life of God.

In the past, God forged sharp arrows—individual ministries—and fired them into strongholds.

Now, in a multicultural, multi-channel, multi-choice world, God is preparing a vast net—millions of believers casting together across the land.

Into this moment, God is releasing new strategies for our time.

New wine requires new wineskins.
And new wineskins are here.

Joseph Mattera: 12 Negative Consequences of Divorcing the Cross From the Kingdom

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Joseph Matters writes:

One of the most serious theological crises in the contemporary church is the growing separation between the message of the kingdom and the way of the cross. Whenever these two are divorced, the kingdom becomes distorted, and the church loses its prophetic witness. Scripture reveals that the kingdom Jesus preached is inseparable from the cruciform life He modeled. The cross is not only the entry point into salvation—it is the shape of Christian leadership, influence, and spiritual authority. When we remove the cross, we remove the very character of Christ from the mission of the church. What follows are twelve negative consequences that arise when believers pursue the kingdom without embracing the cross.

  1. The Kingdom Becomes a Human Empire

When the cross is removed from kingdom theology, the kingdom becomes a tool for building personal brands, expanding organizations, and consolidating influence. Leaders begin constructing towers instead of washing feet. The movement of Jesus becomes an enterprise run by human strategy rather than a spiritual family shaped by sacrifice. Empire-building replaces servant leadership, and ministry becomes more about the greatness of the leader than the greatness of Christ.

  1. Ego and Ambition Replace Humility and Brokenness

A kingdom taught without the cross inflates human ego. Calling becomes confused with status; influence becomes a competition; ministry becomes a platform for gifted but unbroken leaders. Instead of dying to self, people pursue the kingdom as a path to personal fulfillment, visibility, and significance. The cross confronts ambition, but without it, ambition runs wild under the disguise of “taking mountains” and “walking in destiny.”

  1. Leadership Defaults to Top-Down Control

Jesus explicitly rejected the power structures of the Gentiles, yet when kingdom teaching loses its cruciform core, leaders unconsciously imitate worldly models of control. Authority becomes positional instead of relational. Leaders command from above rather than serve from below. Hierarchy replaces humility, and people become managed instead of discipled. Without the cross, leadership becomes about exerting power rather than empowering people.

  1. The Spirit of Narcissism Rises in the Church

When the cross is absent, leaders become image-driven, platform-centered, and hypersensitive to criticism. Ministry becomes a stage upon which leaders perform rather than an altar upon which they die. Narcissism masquerades as vision, and spiritual language is used to project ego and reputation. The cruciform life forms “decreasing” leaders; a crossless kingdom forms entitled leaders who must constantly “increase” and be the center of attention. 

  1. Ministry Takes on Colonial Tendencies

A kingdom divorced from the cross often becomes coercive, imposing culture, preferences, and systems onto others. Instead of practicing incarnational mission in the way of Christ-leaders solely adopt conquest mentalities—seeking to “take over” rather than influencing through serving.” The cross breaks superiority and produces servants; a crossless kingdom produces conquerors who mistake domination for discipleship.

  1. The Church Sends Ambitious People Into Civic Leadership

The kingdom does speak to culture and government, but when the cross is removed, believers pursue civic roles without cruciform formation. Ambitious personalities, lacking spiritual depth, enter arenas of power and are quickly discipled by the systems they hoped to influence. They may speak kingdom language but operate in worldly spirit. Without the cross, we raise influencers instead of Daniels.

  1. Immature Leaders Rise Too Quickly

A crossless kingdom elevates gifting over character and charisma over spiritual depth. People who have never endured the refining fire of the cross ascend into leadership prematurely. This results in emotional instability, shallow discipleship, and wounded congregations. Without the cross, leadership formation becomes about speed, not depth; visibility, not maturity.

  1. Promotion Becomes Human-Driven, Not God-Given

Jesus taught that only the humble will be exalted. The cross is God’s means of preparing leaders for sustainable influence. When the cross is removed, leaders grasp for roles, titles, and opportunities instead of waiting for God’s timing. Ministry becomes a competition of self-promotion, and influence becomes disconnected from intimacy with God. Without the cross, crowns are seized by men rather than bestowed by Jesus. 

  1. The Kingdom Collapses Into Moralism

Remove the cross, and Christianity becomes a program of moral improvement rather than spiritual regeneration. Sermons focus on ethical principles without resurrection power. People are taught how to behave but not how to die and rise with Christ. The kingdom becomes a list of virtues rather than a transformed life empowered by grace. The cross alone enables the Spirit’s work of new creation.

  1. Ministry Is Powered by Human Strength Instead of the Spirit

A crossless kingdom leads to churches built on talent, marketing, systems, and strategy—yet lacking the anointing. Leaders become exhausted because they are trying to accomplish spiritually impossible tasks through human effort. Prayer becomes optional. The gifts of the Spirit go dormant. Without the cross, there is no Pentecost; without surrender, there is no power.

  1. Spiritual Authority Is Misunderstood and Abused

When the cross is absent, authority becomes confused with control, intimidation, and positional dominance. Leaders wield authority instead of embodying it. Biblical authority is cruciform—it flows through brokenness, sacrifice, and love. A crossless leader may hold a hierarchical title but lacks spiritual traction. Without the cross, authority becomes a weapon rather than a stewardship.

  1. The Church Loses the Revelation of the Lamb

Perhaps the greatest consequence of divorcing the cross from the kingdom is that the church loses sight of Jesus as the Lamb at the center of the throne (Rev. 5:6). The Lamb reveals the nature of kingdom power—self-giving love, sacrifice, humility, and forgiveness. When the Lamb is eclipsed, the church becomes political, anxious, aggressive, and triumphalist. Without the cross, we imitate worldly kings instead of the Crucified King.

The kingdom without the cross produces gifted people without godliness, influence without integrity, and movements without the presence of God. But the kingdom shaped by the cross produces leaders who look like Jesus—humble, sacrificial, Spirit-filled, and faithful.

The future belongs to the cruciform church.

The Lamb still reigns.

And His kingdom still advances through the cross.

Sports, Sunday Mornings, and the Meaning of ‘Neglect’

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From desiringgod.org

Sports, Sunday Mornings, and the Meaning of ‘Neglect’

A recent Lifeway survey found that 40 percent of evangelical pastors believe it’s never okay to miss church for sports. Only 25 percent of churchgoers agreed. Meanwhile, a study in Review of Religious Research found that among churches experiencing declining attendance, the most commonly cited reason was children’s sports on Sundays.

Sport is a wonderful joy. As Jeremy Treat puts it, “Sport is more than a game, less than a god, and when transformed by the gospel, can be received as a gift to be enjoyed forever.” So, what do we do about sports on Sunday mornings?

Each of us has a knee-jerk response to that question. It might be informed by your upbringing, your tradition, your community, or your past or present decisions. But all of life is to be arranged under Christ — including our sports. How can those of us who love sports — whether we’re pastors, parents, or athletes — consider carefully how to make faithful, godly, and wise decisions about sports on Sunday mornings?

We Need the Gathering

Christian athletes will rightly see their sport as an act of whole-life worship (Romans 12:1). But the question of whether we miss corporate worship in order to play can be harder to navigate.

The temptation to miss church is not a new one. Two thousand years ago, people were finding reasons to miss the gathering of God’s local community. Yet Hebrews 10:24–25 speaks with clarity and urgency:

Let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

One of the most important habits in the Christian life is the regular gathering of God’s people to sing, pray, sit under God’s word, and receive the Lord’s Supper. It is vital for our spiritual health. And God has designed this weekly gathering not only to sustain our faith but also to make us a means of encouragement to others.

Last year I ran a marathon. Though the race was long, the presence of others made all the difference. The cheers from the crowd, the shared pace, the grunts of encouragement from fellow runners — all of it helped me to press on. That’s what the weekly gathering is: an essential encouragement for weary saints, a mutual “Keep going!”

The gathering is also a guardrail. Elsewhere in Hebrews, the author issues a sobering warning: Isolation leaves us vulnerable to sin’s deceit (Hebrews 3:13). The local church is one of God’s primary means of preserving us week by week, keeping us anchored to the gospel as we await the coming Day. It’s like the marshals during the marathon: pointing the way, keeping me on course, reminding me how far I’ve come and how far I’ve yet to go.

The Sabbath law may be fulfilled in Christ, but the command to meet regularly as God’s people under God’s word still stands. This isn’t legalism. It’s a lifeline. Weekly worship is fuel for the journey and joy for the soul.

We Need All of the Body

Most Christian athletes I know agree that the Christian life isn’t meant to be lived alone. So, they find ways to engage with Christian community at other points in the week — through youth groups, perhaps, or a midweek huddle with fellow sportspeople. Christ, though, came so that all his people can be “one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28).

When our regular rhythms only include Christians who share our age, background, or calling, we miss out on something essential. The apostle Paul reminds us, “God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. . . . As it is, there are many parts, yet one body” (1 Corinthians 12:18, 20). The church is not a social club of like-minded peers. It’s a spiritual body — diverse, interdependent, and designed by God for our good. As we gather, we encourage one another by being part of a body made up of different parts. Young and old. Rich and poor. Black and white. The fit and the less so.

We lose out on many blessings when we don’t meet week by week with those different from us. First, we do not learn how to love those different from us, as Paul urges us to (Colossians 3:11–14). Second, we miss an opportunity to display the unifying and reconciling power of the gospel to the watching world, as they see believers loving one another across divides of background and life situation. Caring for those we have little in common with shows God’s love most plainly (Matthew 5:43–48). Third, we miss the wisdom and perspective that come from others’ varied experiences. This includes the blessing of being with people who don’t treat you differently because you are an athlete.

“Neglect is measured not only in Sundays missed but in hearts drifting from Christ and his people.”

One former Premier League football player I spoke to reflected on this with joy: “When my family joined a new church for the first time, we met people who didn’t care about me because of football. They cared about my wife, my children, and me. For the first time in ten years, we felt like we belonged somewhere.”

To run the race well, we need the whole body. That requires deliberate rhythms, making time to gather, worship, and grow alongside brothers and sisters of every kind, not just the sporty ones.

Read the rest of the article here

Quote for the Day

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Many a great battle is won, and many a strong evil disempowered in the quiet place of an apostle’s late nights and early mornings, or together with others in the prayer meetings of a holy Christian community. John Alley

#apostles #church #prayer

The Bride

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This week, my wife and I celebrated our 43rd wedding anniversary. We are past the cards and flowers stage, but we did go out together for lunch the following day. I am looking forward now to the next “milestone”, the 50th.

When we were married, in our 20’s, we could not imagine that length of time. But looking back, we can see some things as if they happened just yesterday- our wedding, the births of our children, places we lived and friends we have made.

Our marriage has been 99% joyful because we share the same goals and we each put the interests of the other above our own desires. The other 1% was when one or other wanted their own way; that’s where forgiveness and unconditional love get to be practised.

The Bible tells us that when a man and a woman marry, they become “one flesh.” Two people bring their individual personalities and talents into a relationship, and over time they become so close and so knowledgeable of one another that they become almost one person.

In an individualistic society like ours that is the ultimate horror story- losing your individuality, your own sense of self-direction to another. It works out to be the opposite, because we gain far more than we give up. Less a horror story than a romantic comedy!

The Bible describes the relationship of God’s people to Christ as being like a marriage. The book of Revelation describes a big party in heaven where the church, made up of all the believers throughout history, is described as a bride being united with Jesus Christ her bridegroom.

That relationship, we are told, will last not just 43 or 50 years but for all eternity.

The good news is that the wedding is open to everyone, not just invited guests. In a funny way, Jesus’ death on the cross was like a proposal. He is asking you to join Him in the wedding of the ages, to spend eternity with Him.

Will you say “Yes”?

Brian Houston Exnerated Over Father’s Paedophilia

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From the ABC, some excellent news after all the mud slinging

Hillsong founder Brian Houston found not guilty of concealing his father’s sexual abuse of a child

Jamie McKinnell, Heath Parkes-Hupton — 4 minutes

Hillsong founder Brian Houston has been found not guilty of concealing his father’s sexual abuse of a child.

Key points:

  • Brian Houston pleaded not guilty to concealing a serious indictable offence
  • A Magistrate concluded Brian Houston had a “reasonable excuse” for not reporting the matter
  • Magistrate Christophi said it was ‘the opposite of a cover-up’ 

The 69-year-old has previously told a Sydney court he was left “speechless” in 1999 when he first learned of Frank Houston’s abuse of a seven-year-old boy decades earlier.

But Brian Houston insisted he did not go to the police because he was respecting the wishes of the victim, Brett Sengstock, who by that time was aged in his 30s.

He pleaded not guilty to concealing a serious indictable offence.

Magistrate Gareth Christofi on Thursday found Brian Houston not guilty, after concluding he had a “reasonable excuse” for not reporting the matter.

In his judgement, Magistrate Christofi found Mr Houston knew or reasonably believed that Mr Sengstock did not want the matter reported to police.

a man wearing glasses with his hand up
Frank Houston was stripped of his credentials as a pastor for the Assemblies of God and died in 2004.(ABC News)

The court heard Mr Sengstock gave evidence that his abuse at the hands of Frank Houston was a “hideous secret”, and one he did not wish for others to know.

At a hearing last year, he gave evidence of feeling “betrayed” by his mother when she raised the allegations with a member of their local church in Sydney’s west.

Magistrate Christofi found it would have been consistent with all the evidence that Mr Sengstock would have expressed that sentiment to Brian Houston during a phone call about the abuse in 1999.

“There is little doubt in my view that the accused knew or believed on reasonable grounds that Brett Sengstock did not want the matter reported to police,” the magistrate said.

A man wearing a
The Magistrate found the Hillsong founder spoke openly about his father’s crimes.(AAP: Bianca De Marchi)

He also found that a $10,000 payment arranged by Frank Houston to Mr Sengstock could not be proven to be “hush money”, or that Brian Houston had intended it to be so.

The court heard Mr Sengstock, then in his 30s, met with Frank Houston and another member of the Hills Christian Life Centre — the precursor to Hillsong — at Thornleigh McDonalds in 1999.

He signed a napkin and told the court Frank Houston said: “You’ll get your money we can keep this between ourselves.”

Mr Sengstock told the court he believed the money was to “buy his silence”, and that he did not see the money until he chased up the deal with Brian Houston.

Magistrate Christofi found, however, that the terms of the agreement were “entirely unclear” and there was insufficient evidence that it was intended to stop Mr Sengstock from going to the police.

The Crown’s case was also contradicted by Mr Sengstock’s own evidence that he had not considered going to authorities, he found.

“[Mr Sengstock] did not need to be silenced.”

‘The very opposite of a cover-up’

Magistrate Christophi rejected the Crown’s case that Brian Houston facilitated a “cover up” to protect the church’s reputation, saying the Hillsong founder spoke openly about his father’s crimes.

During the special fixture hearing last year, Brian Houston described his father as a “serial paedophile”.

He said that in 1999 and 2000, more victims had come forward from his father’s time in New Zealand and steps were taken to remove Frank Houston from the ministry.

The court heard Brian Houston told “many people at various levels” of the church about Frank Houston’s predatory behaviour and referenced it in sermons delivered to churchgoers.

Brian Houston also discussed it during an interview with a reporter for the Sydney Morning Herald in 2002, Magistrate Christofi noted.

“That is the very opposite of a cover up,” the magistrate found.

“He spoke widely and freely about the matter in public settings.”

A man in a black suit and white top standing besides a woman in a denim jacket on stage with bright lights
Brian and Bobbie Houston established Hillsong in 1983 in Sydney’s north-west. (Facebook: Hillsong )

Speaking outside court, Mr Sengstock said regardless of today’s outcome he had been handed a “life sentence” having endured a 45-year battle.

“Today I’ve received some recognition for a seven-year-old child who was brutally abused at the hands of a self-confessed child rapist and coward, Frank Houston,” he said.

“Frank Houston was no pioneer for Christianity, his legacy remains a faded memory of a paedophile.”

He thanked prosecutors, police and his family for their support, and all those who worked to give survivors of clergy child sexual abuse “a voice in this country”.

“Blaming the victim is as repulsive as the assaults themselves,” Mr Sengstock said.

“It should not be this hard.”

During last year’s hearing, he gave evidence that in one of their 1999 phone calls an “angry” Brian Houston claimed his father had been “tempted” by a young Mr Sengstock.

Mr Houston denied this while being cross-examined, saying it was “absurd” to suggest he would blame someone who was abused as a child.

“It’s nonsense. I mean, who would say that about a seven-year-old boy, or a 10-year-old boy … it’s just an absurd notion.”

Book Review: Boards That Make A Difference by John Carver- Third Edition Published 2006 by Jossey-Bass

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When I left my denomination to plant an independent church, I was determined to have the minimum of committees and unnecessary unproductive meetings. My previous denomination had a beautiful structure of councils and committees at various levels of authority. Between the meetings of these groups and the communication of the decisions of these groups, there was a lot of work being done that contributes little to the core business of the church which is to make disciples and preach the Good News.

John Carver is an expert in the leadership of non-profit organisations and other community groups. He argues for a model of governance in which the Board (the generic term he uses for the leadership group of an organisation) sets the minimum boundaries for itself which will ensure that the interests of the “owners” are preserved while pursuing their vision. Everything else is delegated to the management via a CEO or equivalent.

Carver argues that most CEO’s will feel empowered by a Board that sets them free to be creative in the way that they pursue the mission of the organisation without having a Board breathing down their neck and second guessing their decisions.

In Carver’s model, which he calls Policy Governance, boards should concern themselves with 4 areas in the life of the organisation:

  1. Ends Policies- that is what the organisation is here for . What is the vision of the organisation? What difference will we make in the world? In broad terms, how do we get there?
  2. Executive Limitations Policies- what is not OK in pursuing our vision? Can the CEO break the law in order to make things happen? Can we run a sweat shop as a fund raiser?
  3. Board- Management Policies- how do the board relate to management and vice versa?
  4. Governance Process Policies- these are decisions about how the board goes about doing its own job.

These policies are written down and can be set out in a page or so of narrative.

In this approach, the Board goes about setting the “big picture” parameters of the organisation instead of getting bogged down in finances, HR policies, and all of the other things that get boards and committees bogged down. Everything else is passed down to management to control.

What I like about this book is that it pursues a minimalist vision for governance that can be adapted to a wide range of different groups. It is almost a universal model for governance. For churches, this fits in with the apostolic model that emphasises the gifting of pastors and other leaders, while allowing for oversight and correction where things go off track.

“Boards That Make A Difference” is well argued and is readable. The topic might seem dry and uninteresting, but to everyone who is involved in leading organisations, it will be inspiring.

Carver has also written a book about how to implement this Policy Governance model, “Reinventing Your Board.” I look forward to getting onto that and thinking about the organisations that I am involved with.